There are hundreds of archaic words that I have no idea what they mean and then you have words that have actually changed meaning since the KJV was published like conversation, to me that means to talk with someone, not in the KJV, it means behavior, prevent is another one, to me it means to stop someone from doing something, not in the KJV, it means to precede. I assume you are referring to the errant position that many Pastors, Deacons, or Elders have taken placing themselves between God & Man. But it seems bottom line the wealth & sacrifce of it to kingdom building remains the same. I am not trying to be overly critical and yet I only have a certain amt of time to get to my points and while doing that I often come across that way, so forgive me. Still today, many Protestants see the Lords Supper as a sacrament, having to some degree saving properties or giving some spiritual benefit. Have been over twenty years, and have attended probably ten or more IFB churches here in Ohio and elsewhere, and I have never met an IFB pastor who didnt include scriptures from the Old Testament as well as the New Testament, in his sermons. It is well to note the Pilgrims were also Puritans, and Puritans were Protestants who had left the Church of England. The Gospel is to be preached throughout the world by believers empowered by the Holy Spirit as Acts 1:8 plainly states. He can make it without out $$$, but we need to learn to let go of it. The Reformers were those who protested against certain abuses within the Roman Catholic Church. mint, rue and all manner of herbs all agricultural products from the land. The cops accused them of urinating in the water. Through preaching the New Testament, the Gospel went forth in power and the Baptist movement grew rapidly. Do you think you can bring others to Christ in this manner? You stated that all churches tithe a certain way and used that fact to justify a way of thinking. 1 Timothy 5:17 Deception, 61. I feel silly because some of the things I stood up for on this site are the same things that made me leave. A church that is a biblical one, patterns its self-after the example in the New Testament. Other Anabaptists groups were in gross error and corrupted. The Person of Jesus Christ: Jesus is 100% God and 100% man for all eternity. Independent churches have no organized organization over them in authority. You cannot read psalms w/out seeing those raised hands. Would you agree with me on this? v-43 Stop grumbling among yourselves, Jesus answered. I am Presbyterian and we had a discussion on Christian doctrine. Baptist as a whole were patriots and many Baptist pastors served as chaplains in the Revolutionary Army. http://www.wvec.com/news/local/INSIDE-A-NAKED-CHURCH-85062392.html. It was organized in Cicero, Illinois, U.S., in June 1930 as the successor to the American Conference of Undenominational Churches. When it's Time To Leave Thoughts on Breaking Away, 73. There are a number of other wrong teachings w/in this church but the false teaching about baptism is far and away the biggest, some of the others are, not believing in eternal security, and close behind is not believing that one can know that you are saved. My point (and I just found Scripture) was that Jesus did not disnounce it as badHe says (less I misunderstand) these you ought to have done without leaving the rest undone. @greg I met him about 25 years ago and our spirits bore witness that we are the sons of God. Since she has a place of her own now I dont see her as much as I like but I wont shun her because she left. Although, many Protestants returned in part to a belief in the Bible as their authority for their faith and practice, not one of them EVER completely left all the doctrinal errors and false teachings of the apostate Roman Catholic church. First I would disagree that The Church of Christ teaches first century, new testament doctrine. I find it difficult sometimes to keep Gods sovereignty and my responsibility in balance. We have special music and usually 2 preachers a night. p.s. One can be feed, clothed , housed & grow up lost & will die but the Gospel offers Eternal Life! The cause is clear. Dont misunderstand, I believe we are to preach and testify, but, from what I understand no ones blood will be on my hands if they wind up in Hell. (I Corinthians 15:1-4) Further, if a person is truly saved and strictly follows the principles of the New Testament he will in a true sense be a Baptist whether he uses the name or not. It stands for devotion and a strict obedience to God and his commandments. He, however, continued to preach by holding services in his own home. For example these same people existed when He taught to look upon a woman with lust was Adultry & not just the physcial act. A side note, my sons group In Search Of Reason has been selected to play for CreationFest this year. Again, its not about how we dress, but about who we are. I am personally done with religion If asked what religion I am, my standard answer is christian even though I am still attending a little Baptist Church. Our Beliefs JESUS CHRIST Jesus Christ is at the center of everything. Its beginning charter reads as follows: We whose names are hereunder written, being desirous to inhabit ourselves in active and passive obedience to all such orders or agencies as shall be made for the public good of the body in an orderly way, by the major consent of the present inhabitants, masters of families, incorporated together into the same, only in civil things.. 8. However, bottom lineJesus never shared but truth to all incl Phairsees so if His position on tithing was as being not to be left undonethan I believe it stands as something that is good to do, pleasing to God. We should stand out because we are different. In 1645, he formed a Baptist church in London. I believe every one should realize that all is God & if a saint desires to put a tenth to honor God & furthering His kingdom or whatver portion as He desiresthat s a noble act between God & Himself. The bulk of your comments were about the historical background of the Church of Christ movement. Although, this was the first Baptist church to be founded on American soil there is no recorded offspring from this church and modern American Baptist churches can not trace their history directly to it. However, history does not record even one Anabaptist group or church becoming or founding a Baptist church. These new believers would then, following the New Testament example, submit to believers baptism and organize a local church. @greg In reference to the quote you took it wasi n explanation in regards to another point poised regarding tithing a tenth of income vs. actual agriculture and/or stock as the Jews did back thenand it was in a common sense response to the rhetoric regarding why tithe a tenth of income vs possesions being sold, etc is done by most churche sin Usa & other developed nations. (David Benedict, A General History of the Baptist Denomination in American, and Other Parts of the World, London: Lincoln and Edmands, Nr. I dont know of any areas where their teachings are unbiblical or fundamental. I really have an issue with this point. Also, when only what we do for Christ will last would include contributing to kingdom endeavors. But they should not be confused with Fundamental Baptists. We had an elderly woman that lifted her hands and shouted to the Lord the entire service before she went home to be with Him. The loved me and cared for my" 3:2) for Jews who were preparing for coming Messiah and Kingdom God had promised them. If you think women ought to wear pants, thats your prerogative. He believed the only way to recover was to form a new church based on the Bible. Romans 1:20 says that For since the creation Gods invisible qualities his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.. There was no hierarchy in the churches he founded, which were patterned after the simple New Testament example. It was founded by Roger Williams, according to the teachings and example of the New Testament. It is my conviction that this is contrary to the very foundation of what is a true New Testament church. Giving ten percent to God is a good thing, I agree with that. Thus, history and the doctrines of Protestantism clearly show that Baptists are not Protestants. I would directly compare doctrine and practices using scripture to make the assertion which is correct. Personally, I try to for the most part give as I think God is pleased incl supporting Evangelism Ministrys like Compassion (that not only care for childrens physical need but also spirtual vs. the formerly known as Christian Childrens Fund now I believe under the name Child Aide, mainly becaus eCompassion confesses to be Christian & I believe to support church endeavors. than we pray that they will get right with God If it furthers & advances the Kingdom of God (the Church, Evangelism, Missionaries, etc), then I believe it is going to God. It bases its belief in the New Testament teaching that every believer is a priest to himself, having full excess to God without the need to go through a church, church leader or priest. I do not agree with the IFB on their viewpoint of strict dress standards. He was talking about ceremonial law not moral law I think you are confusing those two. 5. My Sunday school teacher and I have discussed the music issue and we both agree that there is nothng wrong with contemporary Christian music (I do believe some of it lifts up flesh rather than Jesus, though). NoI simply believe we are not required to tithe (like keeping law) but it is a good thing to if one wants to. Baptists, including IFB Baptists, are all deceived. I do attend the Church of Christ. Christians under the grace economy give out thankfulness to God for what Christ has done for them, without any compulsion. I saw Jesus there and the Holy Spirit! It seemed that if some people (which were severalactually almost all with very few exceptions) were given any place of position within the church, they responded with a sole purpose for having the pastor pleased with them, and definitely staying in his face about ideas which truly seemed more personal preference than such ideas of benefit. Soul liberty is a belief that everyone is responsible to God individually. The New Testament is the authority in all matters of faith and practice. They reject the efforts of the many who spiritually interpret the Scriptures, placing hidden or specially revealed meanings to the words of the Bible. In 1638, he landed in Boston and settled for a short time in Piscataway (now Dover) in New Hampshire. Independent, Fundamental, King James, Mission Minded Our Service Times Are: Sunday Morning Worship -. Tithing preceded the OT Law. Anyway at least once a year we set up a tent and have an old-fashioned revival. This is Bible 101 stuff. That local body of baptized believers would be as valid a true New Testament church as any church Christ ever founded. You are right, Jesus came to fulfill the law. I humbly asked a question. Independent Fundamental Baptist churches have fellowship one with the other and often cooperate in such endeavors as evangelism. And only imagination could describe what his mind and soul was experiencing. 4:11) or leader of the congregation. Pointing out failures of pastors, church congregations and movements can be informative as long as we also point out that not all, or even most of the groups involved are entwined in grevious and blatant sin. In other areas Baptist churches were being formed about this same time. God uses us, to the extent that get out of His way. If lots of the Church congregation was wearing Scooby doo and sponge bob square pants costumes or swimsuits regularly to Church I would guess that some people would probably leave and look for another Church. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. Pastors tiptoe around specific sins so not to offend. Desire your best & healing in Lord Jesus if not. 7.) In other words, when the Bible speaks, the words have a literal meaning and that it the meaning God intended. Christ suffered and gave His life to save you from hell, it's time you start going to a church that actually believes that. John was beheaded by Herod (Matt. Many churches by this time had come under the domination of the Rome government and had ceased from being New Testament churches. greg, After working for a few hours in our home, the Dish tech stopped working and looked at me asking, Am I correct in believing this is a Christian home I am working in? I said yes. My brother attends an IFB church. I posted my last post like 3 days ago and it just came up recently. Please note that this presented no problem for this first Baptist church in America. The influx of these falsely converted pagans is one reason Roman Catholicism came to have so many idolatrous and pagan beliefs. WHAT IS AN INDEPENDENT FUNDAMENTAL BAPTIST CHURCH? I apologize for my assumptions! It was my burden since then that it seems Jesus wants to gather His flock, but the Wolf in Sheeps Clothing really scattered the sheep resulting to lots of denominations. I made a very similar forgiveness plea on facebook just yesterday, asking all to forgive me if I had ever legalistically stepped on them. It is one made up of baptized believers organized in a local congregation for fellowship, teaching and evangelism. Some more deception I would like to expose are these IFB web sites. Pastors Deserve Double Salary? So I still think Just about every Church has Strict dress Standards whether they know it or not. 13:17, Acts 20:28, Eph. Jesus quoted the old testament. Thank you for writing back. While I do agree that there are some things that tradition has failed on (i.e. The list is endless. We have the freedom to give as much as we like, without any compulsion. Blessings. -How do you determine whether or not a church teaches or practices false doctrine? This kind of power is frightening to meet with. It is surely an affront to any historically informed Baptist identify him by the name of a group that has so hated and persecuted them down throughout history. No one I have ever talked to or debated can show me that money is ever to be considered a tithe. G.L. I would agree with this. I meant to say that I agree that the IFB has strict dress standards. I immediatley thought that my God must be alot bigger than his. Sir, I understand what you are saying about these kind of messages with strong emotional appeals. 6) teach old testament tithing new testamenent giving is found in 2 Cor 9:7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. When we arrive in heaven we are going to be surprised not only by who is there, but by who isnt there. (Hebrews 4:15-16 and 10:19-22) Despite his views he was made the pastor of the church in Salem. We never shun people who leave the church. I am divorced, and I always sit in the front rows. The Baptist bases his authority solely on the Bible itself. WHEN AND WHERE WAS THE FIRST RECORDED BAPTIST CHURCH IN HISTORY. Google Maps shows it located in a modest strip mall in Jacksonville, Florida, alongside an arcade, a . Examine any church in light of these five distinctive it will be shown if they are true historical Baptist congregation which is synonymous with what is a true biblical New Testament church. Advanced Search Directory View All Listings Add Listing Sort By: Grace Baptist Church Pastor's Name Timothy C. Johnson Physical Address 487 Hwy. Many Baptists were executed by the newly formed Church of England during what is called the Protestant inquisition. PASTOR PAUL DYCK. I request any comment left to me is free of insults and vulgarities, please). I hope you come back to comment more. Everyone in the colony was automatically a member of the State church and were taxed to support it. A true New Testament church bases its faith, practice and authority solely in the Word of God. Exposing the Dangerous Teachings of the Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Denomination, Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Deception 2009-2020, Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Deception. He was a presbyter and former deacon in the Anglican church. The point is the name Baptist in the beginning was used to designate a true New Testament assembly that was biblically sound. I chose to focus on the doctrine of separation as typically understood by Independent Baptists (I was one). In 1684, a Baptist church in Maine seeking greater religious liberty was relocated to Charleston, South Carolina. He then begins crying, Im not an expert at body language, but it certainly seemed contrived, preachertainment some would call it. Puritans and Baptists alike, to escape persecution, migrated to the New World. But not all Baptist churches are that way! We hope it will be a blessing to you. He did not fail to share truth although He was not yet crucifiedso likewise I argue that since He said it should not have been left undoneHe meant what He says as He shared the fuller meaning I believe of the Laws. About modesty, my wife and I attended a concert that my sons band performed at a teen group in a neighboring town. The way a Christian dresses should be governed by their love for Christ and other people, not by rules imposed by a religious authority to make one look righteous. At any rate, logical fallacies dont need to be in or out of context to be called logical fallacies. We believe that Jesus is the only one who can reconcile us to God. The Independent Baptist believes that to join with churches who teach and practice false doctrine is condone and even show approval of Biblical error and that all doctrinal error is sin. Later, he escaped and became a Christian missionary. He lived a sinless and exemplary life, died on the cross in our place, and rose again to prove His victory and empower us . It was organized in Cicero, Illinois, U.S., in June 1930 as the successor to the American Conference of Undenominational Churches. I certainly need Gods help to do the things He has asked me to do. Likewiseif a church is teaching its wrong to do sothey are also in error. I understand what you are saying by the verses you referenced in John. Before the America won its independence and the Constitution became law, the Episcopal church, which was the American branch of the Church of England, was the only legal church in Virginia. These churches remained sound in doctrine and practicing the faith of the New Testament. That godly Deacon, so righteous on the outside, may have deep dark unrepentant sins no one know about. IFCA International was founded in 1930 as the Independent Fundamental Churches of America in response to the growing apostasy within the major denominations. If I were asked to compare the church I attend with another denomination that I knew about. Off the top of my head, I can think of 7-8 divorced couples in our church right now (and we only have around 150 in regular attendance) S.J. Being to poor to pay the fines he was banished from the colony. No words could console. Please refer to the appropriate style manual or other sources if you have any questions. My point is that Tithing is good since Jesus says they should not have left it undone. All but seven were above the Mason-Dixon line. The Law was done away withperfect love fullfills all the Law was trying to acomplish. Lynne, From a Calvary Chapel web site: We do not maintain church membership; You must be born again spiritually to join the church of Jesus Christ, therefore membership is in the whole church of Jesus, not just our local fellowship., This practice stems from their Moses model (top down) style of church leadership. 4.) There is every value in appealing only to present adherence to the New Testament as ones sole authority for faith and practice. So, I guess we are not all as rigid as one would believe from some comments. If the staff at Costa Mesa accepts the person, he becomes an affiliated clergyman in a global network led by Chuck Smith.. Member churches are forbidden to affiliate with any denomination, and the fellowship, administered by annually elected trustees, cannot organize itself as a denomination. KJB. Therefore if a church is teaching Tithe is mandatory or sin if not donethey are I believe in error. And that homeless man that shows up every few weeks may have truly accepted Christ in the past, but events of life led to his downward spiral. He soon embraced Separatists ideas and decided to leave England. 3. The Revolutionary War for some time slowed the growth of Baptist churches. He is not nearly as fundy as where I left from, and is learning. Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they My sons group will be performing on the Indie stage at 10:00 am on July 1. You have it backwards. Drinkers go to the next town to buy their drinks. For an example there is Patrick of Ireland. 5. God has not entrusted that authority to impart salvation to any man or church. Oopsin 1st paragraphh in one sentence I actually meant something more like this: the Law is fullfillednow we can truly do good works that are pleasing to the Lord for the sins are washed away with & following the Law to make us right, which it never could but only point to our need for redemption, is fullfilled. No church in the NT took that label. 2 Timothy 2:15, Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Alsoas in regargds to whom Jesus spoke to (they were Phairsees)I dont think that matters, the Phairsee just happened to be the ones constantlty questioning & troubling Himas well as were the Religious Leaders of that day whom example was probally looked at by others to follow (note Jesus: Do the things that they teach, Jesus said, But do not do the things that they do). Please do not take this the wrong waybut coming from someone who I think is more objective (i was not raised in a IFB, just joined, been a part of non-denm & other denm fellowships), well here goes in love: it almost seems like you have an axe to grind with IFB Church. For example, G.L. In order to distinguish between the doctrinally unsound Baptist churches and those that believed the Bible many Baptist churches changed their name. Even the enemies of the Baptists openly recognize their zeal for the Word of God. One of the best sources I have found concerning His nature, the Nature of Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is at the following link: Gayle Erwin does a wonderful teaching on the nature of God. Furthermore I believe it involved religion. The Puritans were dissenters from the Church of England. I just wanted you to know that I have made the decision to leave the IFB. John was Gods true prophet and the forerunner of the Messiah Jesus Christ, but he was not a part of the dispensation of the institution of the local church. It is important to note too, that each Believer must be passionate about winning lost folks to Christ. I do like your nice touch of calling us idiots though. Not one Baptist church can show in its history a direct succession from the Anabaptists. For example, Paul wrote letters to the churches, each being intended for one church, and then other churches used them and later they were accepted as fully inspired parts of Scripture. But wouldnt Paul himself, or the original church to whom the letter was sent, count as outside authority and control? We have the personal presence of the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us, why would we want to follow rules that were intended for people living in the power of the flesh? But anyway he says that if those folks go to Hell, that their blood would be on your hands. I heard an absolutely beautiful message, very uplifting, of course no singing, (Btw I like acapella singing, no biblical reason for it though) also didnt talk about baptism that day. One of the most unsettling things to experience is dealing with corruption in power. Introducing the Abusive Randy Ireland, You Might Be an Independent Fundamental Baptist if, Broad Stroking and Sweeping Generalizations Fallacy, Harold Camping Fails to Predict the Rapture, The 10 Commandments of the Independent Fundamental Baptists, 92-Year-Old Woman Kicked Out of Church for not Tithing, Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) De. I am not in favor of tactics that play on peoples emotions so as to secure a visible result. Thousands of Southern Baptist Churches didn't baptize a single convert last year. Baptist also believe the Bible interprets itself, and that Christ is the only head of the church. To hold to the secessionist position takes the authority away from the New Testament and places it in the hands of man. We preach modest clothing (unfortunatly most of the girls at my church dont adhere to it in that they wear skirts that expose all but a few inches of the upper leg). But this article simply exposes the Baptist system as just another denomination among tens of thousands. So what is the solution? Greg, On the other hand, we are responsible for witnessing to people God brings our way. You can tell when people actually study their Bibles. Some formed new churches and called themselves Baptists to make it clear that they believed and followed the New Testament. In 1539 thirty one more who had fled to Holland were apprehended and martyred there. It was not founded because a line of Baptist churches down through history. The faulty logic here comes from not paying attention to the Scripture. To only teach from the New Testament and ignoring the old is not using the whole Word of God. How can you not see that? God cares not for your works, your baptism, your church attendance, or your social status. If they want to protest such an event, please feel free to move their candy butts a mile or more down the road. The New IFB website and social media accounts - launched in early 2018 - have been taken down, and some pastors have distanced themselves from Anderson and his movement. Im surprised but shouldnt be by now that folks know so very little about their respective churches/traditions, most just sit in the pew and simply repeat what their pastor has told them, never checking and studying for themselves, what thus saith the Lord You act so surprised that I questioned you about which Church of Christ you were referring to, do yourself alittle favor and have a look at wikipedias lists of Churches of Christ First and foremost I wanted to make sure you werent referring to the The Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints which is a flat-out cult. This is the largest christian gathering in the U.S. attracting more than 100,000 last year. I am a musician, so really wouldnt be very content in a church where I couldnt play an instrument and never did go there, except to attend her funeral. Suppose an airplane flew over some isolated country that had no past or present contact with anyone else in the world. In 1638, Williams made his way to what is now Providence, Rhode Island, and there bought some land from the Indians. Individuals may also seek membership, and those who do are usually ministers, missionaries, Bible teachers, evangelists, editors of Christian periodicals, or students. They dont tell us what to wear more than any other church. 7. Back in England these men, on returning to England, formed the first recorded Baptist church on English soil. The Puritans were in control of the colonies and in fact had set up a theocracy in which the Puritan church governed both secular and religious affairs. It is well to note that not all Virginians felt this way. Showing 1-20 of 633 church listings. Corrections? Those who put in the effort will be greatly rewarded while those who neglect it do harm to their own souls. I have transferred schools and since then Ive had to find a new church. True New Testament Christians have always rejected such unbiblical ideas. Most of the Anabaptists successors became the Mennonites, Amish and Quakers. I think it is exactly right to see that without divine drawing, no one ever would come to Christ. @greg The pastor's name is Kevin Draganac. Would you say Calvary Chapels are unbiblical and not fundamental? http://www.nakedpastor.com/2011/01/27/total-unaccountable-power/. Would someone be frowned upon if they used another translation of the bible in your church besides the KJV translation? I loved what you said about knowing the nature of God. The powertrip, which is all Ill call it, was even noticed to be among some of the laypersons who were ushers, or just people who knew people. Don't expect anything contemporary or liberal. The study of Gods word deserves more time than this life holds. Sure you used scripture, but only as a hammer to bash Greg on the head. You will find, to the left, a tags cloud as well as a category drop down menu. Its not that I wouldnt want to give to bothbut if I only have 30 dollars; Id rather give to feed, clothe, house & most of all share the Gospel vs just feed, clothe & housed. 6.) Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ministry experience: Over thirty years of experience in Independent, Fundamental Baptist Churches, serving in . Greek Orthodox Churches; Unity Churches; Lutheran Churches; Eastern Orthodox Churches;